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	<title>Perry Noble &#124; Leadership, Vision &#38; Creativity &#187; Church PlantingPerry Noble | Leadership, Vision &amp; Creativity</title>
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		<title>Two Types Of Church Planters</title>
		<link>http://www.perrynoble.com/2011/08/25/two-types-of-church-planters/</link>
		<comments>http://www.perrynoble.com/2011/08/25/two-types-of-church-planters/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Aug 2011 11:31:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>perry</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Church Issues]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Church Planting]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Leadership]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.perrynoble.com/?p=4131</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This year in preparation for NLC (which is going to be AMAZING) I received a couple of different emails from church planters&#8230;
#1 &#8211; The first one basically said that they were so excited about coming to NLC&#8230;that when they first saw the conference they didn&#8217;t think they could afford it; however, after putting their heads [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This year in preparation for NLC (which is going to be AMAZING) I received a couple of different emails from church planters&#8230;</p>
<p>#1 &#8211; The first one basically said that they were so excited about coming to NLC&#8230;that when they first saw the conference they didn&#8217;t think they could afford it; however, after putting their heads together they decided to sell an old van they had and through the sale of that van had the money to come to the conference.</p>
<p>#2 &#8211; The second one said that they were a new church plant that didn&#8217;t have a lot of resources and wondered if we would give them tickets.</p>
<p>We can argue about this all day&#8230;but if I were a betting man I would put my money on church #1 succeeding and church #2 achieving, at best, mediocrity.</p>
<p>Church number one has what I refer to as &#8220;The Victory&#8221; mentality&#8230;they are willing to do what it takes to advance things forward.</p>
<p>Church number two has what I refer to as &#8220;The Victim&#8221; mentality&#8230;they feel &#8220;trapped&#8221; by their circumstances and are expecting a handout.</p>
<p>Am I being hard on church number two?  NOPE!  Because&#8230;church leaders that cannot get past the entitlement mentality and seem to want to make excuses as to all of the reasons they cannot do what God has said to do NEVER achieve their full potential.</p>
<p>Honestly, it takes me back to when we started <a target="_blank" href="http://www.newspring.cc">NewSpring Church</a>&#8230;</p>
<p>We didn&#8217;t have money in the bank (you do not have to have a certain amount of money to begin a church!!!)</p>
<p>We didn&#8217;t have an org chart</p>
<p>We didn&#8217;t have a sound system or lights</p>
<p>We didn&#8217;t have a conference budget</p>
<p>What we had was vision&#8230;and knew that &#8220;if it&#8217;s God&#8217;s will then it&#8217;s God&#8217;s bill!&#8221;</p>
<p>When it came time to bring in a consultant that we felt the Lord wanted us to bring in&#8230;we didn&#8217;t lecture him about how poor we were (AND WE WERE)&#8230;we paid him!</p>
<p>When it came time for us to go to a conference we didn&#8217;t call the church and ask them for a handout&#8230;we registered EARLY (so we could get the discout) and PAID THE PRICE to go!</p>
<p>Let me be very clear&#8230;a church that has &#8220;the victim&#8221; mentality simply is in trouble&#8230;because if that is how THE LEADERS think then how in the world will their people EVER be able to step up and achieve an <a href="http://biblegateway.com/bible?version=31&amp;passage=Ephesians+3%3A20" class="bibleref" title="NIV Ephesians 3:20" target="_new">Ephesians 3:20</a> life!</p>
<p>Church planters&#8230;you are either a Victor or a Victim&#8230;which one are you?</p>
<p>AND&#8230;if you are a church planter you may want to check out these other articles&#8230;</p>
<ul>
<li><a href="http://www.perrynoble.com/2010/08/24/13-things-i-would-tell-church-planters/" target="_blank"><strong>13 Things I Would Tell Church Planters</strong></a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.perrynoble.com/2010/05/25/four-questions-church-planters-must-answer/" target="_blank"><strong>Four Questions Church Planters MUST Answer</strong></a></li>
<li><strong>Five Tests A Church Planter Will Face &#8211; <a href="http://www.perrynoble.com/2010/02/04/five-tests-a-church-planter-will-face-part-one-of-two/" target="_blank">PART ONE</a> &amp; <a href="http://www.perrynoble.com/2010/02/05/five-tests-a-church-planter-will-face-part-two-of-two/" target="_blank">PART TWO</a></strong></li>
<li><a href="http://www.perrynoble.com/2009/12/15/seven-reasons-your-church-plant-might-fail/" target="_blank"><strong>Seven Reasons Your Church Plant Might Fail</strong></a></li>
</ul>
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		<title>You Have GOT To Check This Out If You Are (Or Want To Be) A Church Planter!</title>
		<link>http://www.perrynoble.com/2011/05/19/you-have-got-to-check-this-out-if-you-are-or-want-to-be-a-church-planter/</link>
		<comments>http://www.perrynoble.com/2011/05/19/you-have-got-to-check-this-out-if-you-are-or-want-to-be-a-church-planter/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 May 2011 11:23:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>perry</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Church Issues]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Church Planting]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.perrynoble.com/?p=3893</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So&#8230;every once in a while someone will get in touch with me and want some church planting advice.  I really do have a heart for church planters and church planting&#8230;which is one of the reasons I have this website.  If you are a church planter and want some advice&#8230;here are several of the things I [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So&#8230;every once in a while someone will get in touch with me and want some church planting advice.  I really do have a heart for church planters and church planting&#8230;which is one of the reasons I have this website.  If you are a church planter and want some advice&#8230;here are several of the things I have written specifically in regards to church planting over the last few years&#8230;</p>
<ul>
<li><strong><a href="http://www.perrynoble.com/2010/08/24/13-things-i-would-tell-church-planters/" target="_blank">13 Things I Would Tell Church Planters</a></strong></li>
<li><strong><a href="http://www.perrynoble.com/2010/05/25/four-questions-church-planters-must-answer/" target="_blank">Four Questions Church Planters Must Answer</a></strong></li>
<li>Five Tests A Church Planter Will Face &#8211; <strong><a href="http://www.perrynoble.com/2010/02/04/five-tests-a-church-planter-will-face-part-one-of-two/" target="_blank">PART ONE</a></strong> &amp; <a href="http://www.perrynoble.com/2010/02/05/five-tests-a-church-planter-will-face-part-two-of-two/" target="_blank"><strong>PART TWO</strong></a></li>
<li><strong><a href="http://www.perrynoble.com/2009/12/15/seven-reasons-your-church-plant-might-fail/" target="_blank">Seven Reasons Your Church Plant Might Fail</a></strong></li>
<li>Five Mistakes I Made As A Young Leader &#8211; <strong><a href="http://www.perrynoble.com/2009/11/17/five-mistakes-i-made-as-a-young-leader-part-one/" target="_blank">PART ONE</a></strong> &amp; <strong><a href="http://www.perrynoble.com/2009/11/18/five-mistakes-i-made-as-a-young-leader-part-two/" target="_blank">PART TWO</a></strong></li>
<li><strong><a href="http://www.perrynoble.com/2009/09/01/fifteen-things-i-wish-someone-would-have-told-me/" target="_blank">Fifteen Things I Wish Someone Would Have Told Me</a></strong></li>
</ul>
<p>In addition to these resources (which are free) there are some other resources out there that you need to be aware of.  (And&#8230;for those who always complain about the costs I would simply encourage you to read, &#8220;Cheap Spiritual Leaders Are An Oxymoron <strong><a href="http://www.perrynoble.com/2010/11/10/cheap-spiritual-leaders-are-an-oxymoron-part-one/" target="_blank">PART ONE</a></strong> &amp; <strong><a href="http://www.perrynoble.com/2010/11/11/cheap-spiritual-leaders-are-an-oxymoron-part-two/" target="_blank">PART TWO</a></strong>.&#8221;</p>
<p>We have a leadership intensive in November here at <a target="_blank" href="http://www.newspring.cc">NewSpring Church</a>&#8230;it is basically the coaching network that we usually do every fall and spring condensed into two and a half days.  <strong><a href="http://www.unleash.cc/intensive" target="_blank">HERE is where you can get the information and register.</a></strong> Space is limited, not every application can be accepted and the deadline is June 3&#8230;and this intensive is not just for Senior Pastors but for any church leader that wants to take their ministry to the next level.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.unleash.cc/nlc/" target="_blank"><strong>NLC is going to be here on September 8 of this year and the lineup is outstanding.</strong> </a> AND&#8230;the early bird rate of $99 is available through the end of June&#8230;after that the price increase to $129.  Registrations are already WAY ahead of last years and we are fully anticipating this conference to be at maximum capacity.</p>
<p>Also&#8230;Northpoint Church has a leadership resource page that you <strong><a href="http://insidenorthpoint.org/" target="_blank">should definitely check out here!</a></strong> Trust me&#8230;this is amazing leadership material.</p>
<p>Both myself and Andy Stanley have a free leadership podcast on itunes&#8230;and even though Rick Warren hasn&#8217;t done a podcast in a while the stuff he put out there when he was podcasting a few years ago is pure gold&#8230;you should pick it up.</p>
<p><strong><a href="http://tonymorganlive.com/consulting/" target="_blank">Tony Morgan</a></strong> does consulting and would be an excellent resource to bring in and talk with your church planting team.</p>
<p><strong><a href="http://www.leadnet.org/" target="_blank">The Leadership Network</a></strong> has great resources for church planters.</p>
<p><strong><a href="http://www.churchplanters.com/" target="_blank">So does Church Planters.com </a></strong></p>
<p>I could go on and on&#8230;the bottom line is that church planters have way more information than we could possibly apply.</p>
<p>Honestly, the best advice I could EVER give a church planter is listen to God and then do what He says!!!  Beg God for His revelation instead of trying to produce a ministry of imitation. <strong><a href="http://www.perrynoble.com/2009/10/29/why-i-believe-the-churches-best-days-are-ahead/" target="_blank"> As I said in this post&#8230;I believe the churches best days are still ahead of her</a></strong>!!!</p>
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		<title>13 Things I Would Tell Church Planters</title>
		<link>http://www.perrynoble.com/2010/08/24/13-things-i-would-tell-church-planters/</link>
		<comments>http://www.perrynoble.com/2010/08/24/13-things-i-would-tell-church-planters/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Aug 2010 11:33:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>perry</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Church Planting]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.perrynoble.com/?p=3161</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[One of the most frequent questions I receive is, &#8220;If you could tell a church planter one thing, what would it be?&#8221;
I&#8217;ve thought about that question&#8230;and honestly, I can&#8217;t come up with just one thing because the world of church planting is complex.  So, I made a list of several things&#8230;so here&#8217;s what I would [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the most frequent questions I receive is, &#8220;If you could tell a church planter one thing, what would it be?&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve thought about that question&#8230;and honestly, I can&#8217;t come up with just one thing because the world of church planting is complex.  So, I made a list of several things&#8230;so here&#8217;s what I would say to someone who is considering planting a church&#8230;</p>
<p>#1 &#8211; You are going to have to take huge steps of faith to see the dream God has placed inside of you become a reality.  Church planters that pray but refuse to take action never actually do what God has called them do to&#8230;and they wind up bitter at God because they prayed for things that God was more than willing to do if they had just acted on what they were praying for!</p>
<p>#2 &#8211; You are going to have lots of doubters when you share your vision with people&#8230;especially churchy people!  They typically are used to &#8220;by faith we believe God can raise enough money to pave the parking lot&#8221; vision and not &#8220;we are called to reach the entire world&#8221; vision!</p>
<p>#3 &#8211; One of the biggest doubters you will encounter from time to time is yourself!  (Personally, I keep going back to <a href="http://biblegateway.com/bible?version=31&amp;passage=Isaiah+61%3A1" class="bibleref" title="NIV Isaiah 61:1" target="_new">Isaiah 61:1</a> when I doubt!)</p>
<p>#4 &#8211; People who you thought were great friends and would always be by your side will leave you&#8230;and many times it won&#8217;t be pretty.</p>
<p>#5 &#8211; People you don&#8217;t even know right now will one day come along side of you and be unbelievable friends and partners in the ministry God has given you.</p>
<p>#6 &#8211; You will always feel significant financial pressure when you are pursuing the vision God has given you.  The question you must constantly wrestle to the ground is, &#8220;Is THIS what God wants&#8221; and not, &#8220;Can we afford it?&#8221;  Remember&#8230;if it is God&#8217;s will then it is God&#8217;s bill!  What the King wants the King pays for!</p>
<div id="_mcePaste" style="position: absolute; left: -10000px; top: 0px; width: 1px; height: 1px; overflow-x: hidden; overflow-y: hidden;">You are going to run into doubters</div>
<div id="_mcePaste" style="position: absolute; left: -10000px; top: 0px; width: 1px; height: 1px; overflow-x: hidden; overflow-y: hidden;">You are going to doubt yourself</div>
<div id="_mcePaste" style="position: absolute; left: -10000px; top: 0px; width: 1px; height: 1px; overflow-x: hidden; overflow-y: hidden;">You are going to lose people</div>
<div id="_mcePaste" style="position: absolute; left: -10000px; top: 0px; width: 1px; height: 1px; overflow-x: hidden; overflow-y: hidden;">You are going to feel financial pressure</div>
<div id="_mcePaste" style="position: absolute; left: -10000px; top: 0px; width: 1px; height: 1px; overflow-x: hidden; overflow-y: hidden;">You are going to see God in ways that many do not get to see Him</div>
<div id="_mcePaste" style="position: absolute; left: -10000px; top: 0px; width: 1px; height: 1px; overflow-x: hidden; overflow-y: hidden;">You are going to have to declare what you are for rather than what you are against</div>
<div id="_mcePaste" style="position: absolute; left: -10000px; top: 0px; width: 1px; height: 1px; overflow-x: hidden; overflow-y: hidden;">You are going to have to choose whether or not you want to please insiders or reach outsiders.</div>
<div id="_mcePaste" style="position: absolute; left: -10000px; top: 0px; width: 1px; height: 1px; overflow-x: hidden; overflow-y: hidden;">You are going to have to take steps of faith</div>
<div id="_mcePaste" style="position: absolute; left: -10000px; top: 0px; width: 1px; height: 1px; overflow-x: hidden; overflow-y: hidden;">You are going to want to quit</div>
<div id="_mcePaste" style="position: absolute; left: -10000px; top: 0px; width: 1px; height: 1px; overflow-x: hidden; overflow-y: hidden;">You are going to experience a whole new level of spiritual warfare</div>
<div id="_mcePaste" style="position: absolute; left: -10000px; top: 0px; width: 1px; height: 1px; overflow-x: hidden; overflow-y: hidden;">You are going to be tempted to copy the success you see in church world rather than believe the vision God gave you.</div>
<div id="_mcePaste" style="position: absolute; left: -10000px; top: 0px; width: 1px; height: 1px; overflow-x: hidden; overflow-y: hidden;">You are going to change your mind about things you are pretty set on right now.</div>
<p>#7 &#8211; You are going to see God in ways that many do not get to see Him.</p>
<p>#8 &#8211; You are going to have to be WAY more passionate about what you are for rather than what you are against!</p>
<p>#9 &#8211; You are going to have to choose whether or not you want to please insiders or reach outsiders&#8230;you cannot do both.</p>
<p>#10 &#8211; You are going to want to quit&#8211;don&#8217;t!  He who called you is with you and will sustain you!!!  (See <a href="http://biblegateway.com/bible?version=31&amp;passage=Philippians+1%3A6" class="bibleref" title="NIV Philippians 1:6" target="_new">Philippians 1:6</a>)</p>
<p>#11 &#8211; You are going to experience a whole new level of spiritual warfare&#8230;just remember, the only reason the enemy is attacking you is because he sees you as a threat!  Take up the promise in <a href="http://biblegateway.com/bible?version=31&amp;passage=Isaiah+54%3A17" class="bibleref" title="NIV Isaiah 54:17" target="_new">Isaiah 54:17</a>!</p>
<p>#12 &#8211; You are going to be tempted to copy the success you see in church world rather than believe the vision God gave you.  BUT&#8230;God called you because He knew He could trust you with what He has given you&#8230;so be who HE has called you to be.</p>
<p>#13 &#8211; You are going to change your mind about things you are pretty set on right now&#8230;what you think is innovative and cutting edge will one day be considered &#8220;traditional.&#8221;  You can&#8217;t allow the pride behind the fact that your idea is no longer the best idea to bring your church to a place where people meet and talk about what God used to do!</p>
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		<title>Four Questions Church Planters Must Answer</title>
		<link>http://www.perrynoble.com/2010/05/25/four-questions-church-planters-must-answer/</link>
		<comments>http://www.perrynoble.com/2010/05/25/four-questions-church-planters-must-answer/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 May 2010 11:06:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>perry</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Church Issues]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Church Planting]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.perrynoble.com/?p=2866</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#1 &#8211; Cool or Called? 
In other words&#8230;are you going to plant a church &#8220;there&#8221; because it is the cool place&#8230;or because you honestly feel a genuine call from God to go there?
#2 &#8211; Problems or Potential? 
Are you going to begin your church plant by declaring the problems that other churches have&#8230;OR the potential [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>#1 &#8211; Cool or Called? </strong></p>
<p>In other words&#8230;are you going to plant a church &#8220;there&#8221; because it is the cool place&#8230;or because you honestly feel a genuine call from God to go there?</p>
<p><strong>#2 &#8211; Problems or Potential? </strong></p>
<p>Are you going to begin your church plant by declaring the problems that other churches have&#8230;OR the potential that you believe that your church has?</p>
<p><strong>#3 &#8211; Vacation or Vision? </strong></p>
<p>Do you think your church plant is going to be easy&#8230;that people are automatically going to buy into your vision&#8230;that you will receive zero resistance?  If so&#8230;you&#8217;re in for a HUGE wake up call.  Planting a church is not a vacation but rather something that initiated from God through a white hot vision that allows a leader to roll up his sleeves and do whatever it takes to make something happen!  (If you aren&#8217;t willing to work&#8230;church planting isn&#8217;t for you!)</p>
<p><strong>#4 &#8211; Imitation or Revelation? </strong></p>
<p>Do you want to do what you are about to do because you saw it done somewhere else and thought it would be really cool to do&#8230;OR because you know without a doubt that you have heard the voice of God and feel like you might explode if you don&#8217;t do what He&#8217;s calling you to?</p>
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		<title>Five Tests A Church Planter Will Face &#8211; Part Two of Two</title>
		<link>http://www.perrynoble.com/2010/02/05/five-tests-a-church-planter-will-face-part-two-of-two/</link>
		<comments>http://www.perrynoble.com/2010/02/05/five-tests-a-church-planter-will-face-part-two-of-two/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 12:03:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>perry</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Church Issues]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Church Planting]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Leadership]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.perrynoble.com/?p=2565</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Continuing yesterday&#8217;s post&#8230;
#3 &#8211; The Faith Test
Hebrews 11:1 says that faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.
Hebrews 11:6 says that without faith it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God.
SO&#8230;if your vision seems &#8220;impossible,&#8221; if failure is absolutely certain unless God somehow gets involved&#8230;then I would say [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Continuing yesterday&#8217;s post&#8230;</p>
<p><strong>#3 &#8211; The Faith Test</strong></p>
<p><a href="http://biblegateway.com/bible?version=31&amp;passage=Hebrews+11%3A1" class="bibleref" title="NIV Hebrews 11:1" target="_new">Hebrews 11:1</a> says that faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.</p>
<p><a href="http://biblegateway.com/bible?version=31&amp;passage=Hebrews+11%3A6" class="bibleref" title="NIV Hebrews 11:6" target="_new">Hebrews 11:6</a> says that without faith it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God.</p>
<p>SO&#8230;if your vision seems &#8220;impossible,&#8221; if failure is absolutely certain unless God somehow gets involved&#8230;then I would say that you are probably on the right track.</p>
<p>(Please remember that there is a fine line between faith and stupidity&#8230;which is why it is SO essential to make sure you have heard from God and didn&#8217;t just eat some bad pizza!)</p>
<p>AND&#8230;church planter&#8230;the further along you get in the process the larger the steps of faith He commands us to take.  Don&#8217;t EVER make the foolish assumption that one day the decisions somehow &#8220;get easier.&#8221;  If we are walking with God He will always lead us to the place where we are desperate for Him!</p>
<p><strong>#4 &#8211; The Commitment Test</strong></p>
<p>There is a HUGE difference between a group of people who LIKE your church and then those who are actually committed to it&#8230;and sooner or later (usually better if you do it sooner) you&#8217;ve GOT to ask for commitment.</p>
<p>So many pastors are scared to do this because of a fear that they might scare some people away.  Let me make you a promise&#8230;YOU WILL!  BUT&#8230;as pastors and leaders in the church it is not our job to DO all of the ministry&#8230;but to train and equip the body to serve the body (see <a href="http://biblegateway.com/bible?version=31&amp;passage=Ephesians+4%3A11-12" class="bibleref" title="NIV Ephesians 4:11-12" target="_new">Ephesians 4:11-12</a>.)</p>
<p>Too many professional church attenders are used to going somewhere where they &#8220;have their needs met&#8221; rather than being involved somewhere that allows Jesus to use them to meet the needs of others.  Don&#8217;t be afraid to ask for a commitment early and often&#8230;Jesus wasn&#8217;t!  (See <a href="http://biblegateway.com/bible?version=31&amp;passage=John+6" class="bibleref" title="NIV John 6" target="_new">John 6</a>)  Yes, He did lose some&#8230;but the ones who stayed with Him were able to see more happen and accomplish more than they ever dreamed possible.  (See the entire book of Acts!)</p>
<p><strong>#5 &#8211; The Focus Test</strong></p>
<p>As the church grows there will be a temptation to do &#8220;more.&#8221;  Questions will begin to arise such as&#8230;</p>
<ul>
<li>&#8220;When are we going to start a mid week service?&#8221;</li>
<li>&#8220;When are we going to start a school?&#8221;</li>
<li>&#8220;When are we going to start a mens/womens/singles ministry?&#8221;</li>
<li>&#8220;When are we going to (FILL IN THE BLANK.&#8221;</li>
</ul>
<p>For some reason church world has fallen for the lie that as a church grows it needs more programs and activities&#8230;which is why SO many churches get stalled out and stop growing.  NOT because these programs are necessarily evil&#8230;but because they are simply not in the vision of what God wants for that particular church.</p>
<p>Every church planter/pastor needs to ask themselves this question, &#8220;Can God trust me with success?&#8221;  BECAUSE&#8230;having success in ministry often leads to people completely losing their focus and they lead the people into being busy rather than being godly.</p>
<p>That is why a church planter has to KNOW what God has called him to do before he ever launches&#8230;because EVERYONE who walks in the doors of a church plant has a vision for it&#8230;and if you don&#8217;t KNOW what God wants (or if your scared to say no) then your vision will get hijacked and you will eventually be the pastor of a church that you hate!</p>
<p>He saved you&#8230;He called you&#8230;He has equipped you and He will sustain you&#8230;so focus on HIM and do what HE says!</p>
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		<title>Five Tests A Church Planter WILL Face &#8211; Part One of Two</title>
		<link>http://www.perrynoble.com/2010/02/04/five-tests-a-church-planter-will-face-part-one-of-two/</link>
		<comments>http://www.perrynoble.com/2010/02/04/five-tests-a-church-planter-will-face-part-one-of-two/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 12:46:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>perry</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Church Issues]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Church Planting]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Leadership]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.perrynoble.com/?p=2563</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I love being able to chat with/dream with church planters&#8230;and one of the questions often asked by them is, &#8220;What is the one thing you would have wish you had known before you started?&#8221;
My answer is simple&#8230;I wish that someone had told me that the decision to launch the church was actually going to be [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love being able to chat with/dream with church planters&#8230;and one of the questions often asked by them is, &#8220;What is the one thing you would have wish you had known before you started?&#8221;</p>
<p>My answer is simple&#8230;I wish that someone had told me that the decision to launch the church was actually going to be the easiest decision in the process, that during the next year or so I would face five critical tests that I believe every church planter goes through&#8230;and failing these tests is NOT AN OPTION if I really wanted to see the church achieve its maximum potential.</p>
<p><strong>Test #1 &#8211; The Financial Test</strong></p>
<p>I believe that God tests every church planter when it comes to money within the first 12-18 months.  I cannot tell you the number of conversations I&#8217;ve had with people who have said, &#8220;Things were going great until the biggest giver in the church got upset&#8230;and now I don&#8217;t know what to do because what he wants isn&#8217;t the direction I feel that God is leading the church&#8230;but he gives a huge percentage of the budget.&#8221;</p>
<p>First of all&#8211;EVERY church planter/pastor needs to understand that GOD IS THE BIGGEST GIVER IN YOUR CHURCH!  If it&#8217;s God&#8217;s will then it is God&#8217;s bill&#8230;He knows how to take care of what belongs to Him.  AND&#8230;if you sell God out and put your trust in a dude with a HUGE checkbook (and usually an ego to match) then you are nothing more than a prostitute.  (Someone who is paid for a service in order to make another person feel good.)</p>
<p>We faced a financial test EARLY on when we started <a target="_blank" href="http://www.newspring.cc">NewSpring Church</a>.  The people who were literally giving 65% of the budget and who were fully on board at the beginning began to back off as the vision of what we were going to do as a church became more and more clear.  One night they asked me to come to their home, shared their feelings with me and let me know that they were no longer going to be a part of the church.  (BTW&#8230;they did this in the godliest way possible, there were no hard feelings and verbal jabs on either side&#8230;and I still highly respect them to this day!  AND&#8230;another btw&#8230;we hadn&#8217;t even had our first official church service yet!!!)</p>
<p>I would be lying if I said I didn&#8217;t have an &#8220;Oh crap&#8221; moment while hearing them share their hearts; however, I had made a decision early on that the vision of what God had placed in my heart was not for sale&#8230;it never has been and never will be.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, I&#8217;ve seen so many pastors fail this test because they depend on people way more than they depend on God.  When your biggest desire is to keep the biggest givers in your church happy you have ceased to lead and are actually being led!</p>
<p><strong>Test #2 -  The Critics Test</strong></p>
<p>One of the verses that has always amazed me is found in the book of Nehemiah.</p>
<p>Nehemiah is a guy who gets broken by God&#8230;who gets full of vision and passion&#8230;who risks everything to do a great work for God and provide help to a group of people who had all but given up.  He wanted nothing more than to see the &#8220;impossible&#8221; happen and people have their hope restored&#8230;and yet some people had a problem with it!  (See <a href="http://biblegateway.com/bible?version=31&amp;passage=Nehemiah+2%3A10" class="bibleref" title="NIV Nehemiah 2:10" target="_new">Nehemiah 2:10</a>)</p>
<p>Dear church planter&#8230;you are foolish if you actually believe that everyone thinks that what you are doing is a good thing.  SO&#8230;you had better learn early to develop thick skin and not lead through reacting to everything but rather by being proactive and moving on with what God has said&#8230;no matter what &#8220;they&#8221; say.</p>
<p>Your dream will be criticized&#8230;early and often.  BUT&#8230;if God has set your heart on fire then DO NOT let those who have never actually done anything for Him define what they believe you can or can&#8217;t do in His name!</p>
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		<title>Seven Reasons Your Church Plant Might Fail</title>
		<link>http://www.perrynoble.com/2009/12/15/seven-reasons-your-church-plant-might-fail/</link>
		<comments>http://www.perrynoble.com/2009/12/15/seven-reasons-your-church-plant-might-fail/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Dec 2009 12:48:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>perry</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Church Issues]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Church Planting]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Leadership]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.perrynoble.com/?p=2409</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Church planters are a RARE breed&#8230;no one in their right mind would EVER choose to do it&#8230;it MUST be a calling.  AND&#8230;no one WANTS their church plant to fail&#8230;yet here are seven reasons I&#8217;ve seen that some have&#8230;
#1 &#8211; The Church Is Planted Out Of Bitterness Rather Than A Divine Calling From God! 
What some [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Church planters are a RARE breed&#8230;no one in their right mind would EVER choose to do it&#8230;it MUST be a calling.  AND&#8230;no one WANTS their church plant to fail&#8230;yet here are seven reasons I&#8217;ve seen that some have&#8230;</p>
<p><strong>#1 &#8211; The Church Is Planted Out Of Bitterness Rather Than A Divine Calling From God! </strong></p>
<p>What some people call a church plant&#8230;God actually calls a church split.  When a group of bitter, angry, self serving people with a lot of money find a hirling who will do all that they want him to do&#8230;that isn&#8217;t necessarily a church plant.  AND&#8230;usually within two or three years it goes REALLY bad.  Let me be VERY CLEAR here&#8230;when bitterness and anger are the root of the plant&#8230;then the church is in deep trouble right at the beginning.</p>
<p><strong>#2 &#8211; The Leadership Has A Desire For Imitation Rather Than Seeking Revelation! </strong></p>
<p>We&#8217;ve seen it before&#8230;a group of guys go to a conference and see a church&#8230;and then come back to their community and try to be just like the church they saw at the conference.  There is NOTHING wrong with receiving inspiration and ideas at a conference&#8230;but when one church tries to be just like another one in every area&#8230;then I believe the leaders are spending way too much time studying methods rather than the Scriptures.  God calls every church to be unique in some sort of way&#8230;and that will never be found if the leadership isn&#8217;t desperately seeking God for His direction.</p>
<p><strong>#3 &#8211; The Pastor Has A Desire To Be Known Way More Than He Desires To Fulfill The Great Commission! </strong></p>
<p>When a leader is more obsessed with how many hits he is getting on his blog&#8230;or how many people follow him on twitter&#8230;and because of those things loses sight of reaching people for Christ&#8211;it&#8217;s over.</p>
<p><strong>#4 &#8211; When The Leadership Allows The Vision To Get Hijacked In Order To Keep Everyone Happy! </strong></p>
<p>EVERY church planter WILL experience SOMEONE trying to hijack the vision of the church&#8230;MOST of the time before the church ever officially launches.  Pastor..BEG God for HIS vision, let Him BURN it in your heart&#8230;and then go for it and don&#8217;t let anyone talk you out of what God has clearly spoken into you.</p>
<p><strong>#5 &#8211; The Pastor Isn&#8217;t Willing To Call People To Commit. </strong></p>
<p>The last thing we need in the body of Christ is a room full of people who are more commited to watching their favorite TV shows every week than they are to following Christ.  Pastors&#8230;you can&#8217;t be afraid to ask people to commit to Christ, to volunteer, to give and to read their Bibles.  If you back down from this then you will do nothing more than raise a co-dependent group of people who learn to depend on you rather than Jesus.</p>
<p><strong>#6 &#8211; The Pastor Lacks Courage! </strong></p>
<p>This sort of goes along with #5.  I believe that every church planter will be tested early in the process&#8230;usually within the first six months&#8230;and also usually it will relate to finances.  A big giver will begin to list out his or her demands&#8230;and then the leader must decide whether or not he is a prositiute (paid for a service) or a prophet (someone who belongs to God.)  Pastor&#8230;leadership requires courage.  People WILL take shots at you.  People WILL take what you say out of context.  People WILL lie about you.  You are NOT going to be loved by everyone&#8230;and to face that reality takes courage.  If you lack it then you won&#8217;t make it.</p>
<p><strong>#7 &#8211; The Pastor Tries To Do It All By Himself! </strong></p>
<p>Dear pastor&#8230;you are NOT that good!  You can&#8217;t do it all (even though some will expect you to.)  You&#8217;ve GOT to delegate ministry to others.  You&#8217;ve GOT to listen to the people God intentionally places around you.  You&#8217;ve GOT to admit when the load is too heavy so those who care about you can take things off your plate.  You&#8217;ve GOT to understand that Jesus cares WAY more about the church than you do&#8230;and He will send the right people along side of you to make sure HIS vision becomes reality.  We are NOT called to do it alone!!!</p>
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		<title>Five Mistakes I Made As A Young Leader&#8211;Part Two</title>
		<link>http://www.perrynoble.com/2009/11/18/five-mistakes-i-made-as-a-young-leader-part-two/</link>
		<comments>http://www.perrynoble.com/2009/11/18/five-mistakes-i-made-as-a-young-leader-part-two/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 12:37:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>perry</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Church Planting]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Leadership]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Personal]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.perrynoble.com/?p=2336</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#3 &#8211; I Spoke In Absolutes, Saying That We Would Always Do Certain Things and &#8220;Never&#8221; Do Other Things. 
If you want to make God laugh&#8230;tell Him about all of the things you will and won&#8217;t do&#8230;and watch over time how He will cause you to eat your words!
When we first began NewSpring I said [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>#3 &#8211; I Spoke In Absolutes, Saying That We Would Always Do Certain Things and &#8220;Never&#8221; Do Other Things. </strong></p>
<p>If you want to make God laugh&#8230;tell Him about all of the things you will and won&#8217;t do&#8230;and watch over time how He will cause you to eat your words!</p>
<p>When we first began NewSpring I said that I would never teach on giving&#8230;because it made people uncomfortable.  Until I actually begin digging into Scripture and realized that Jesus talked about giving more than He did prayer&#8230;or faith&#8230;or heaven&#8230;or hell!  (And I also realized the only people who were really uncomfortable were the ones who were not giving!)</p>
<p>When we first began I said we would not do a public invitation because they didn&#8217;t work anymore.  I had a place in the program that people could check if they wanted to know more information about Christ&#8230;and asked people to fill that out and that someone would follow up with them.  BUT&#8230;THEN GOD pressed in on me DURING a service to offer an invitation.  I tried to explain to Him we didn&#8217;t do that&#8230;then He explained to me that it wasn&#8217;t my church!  So&#8230;I obeyed (relunctantly) and people responded!!!</p>
<p>THEN I began to declare that we would ALWAYS do a public invitation&#8230;which, once again, was a phrase I would have to eat.  I</p>
<p>I could go on and on with this one&#8230;the thing I would warn leaders about is this&#8230;be VERY careful when making absolute statements&#8230;they probably will come back to bite you.</p>
<p>(And&#8230;for the record&#8230;we do an invitation when HE leads us to&#8230;which is often!!)</p>
<p><strong>#4 &#8211; I Had The &#8220;Not Us&#8221; Mentality. </strong></p>
<p>I heard a statistic when we planted <a target="_blank" href="http://www.newspring.cc">NewSpring Church</a> that within two years that 50% of the people who started the church would be gone.</p>
<p>When I heard that I said, &#8220;not us&#8230;we&#8217;re different&#8230;we&#8217;re commited&#8230;we&#8217;re going to be the exception.&#8221;</p>
<p>Uh&#8230;we weren&#8217;t!  In fact, it didn&#8217;t take me two years to lose about 50% of the core team&#8230;it took about two months!!!  The lessons I learned in those days were hard&#8230;but real&#8230;</p>
<ul>
<li>You will lose people!</li>
<li>Whenever you call for sacrifice&#8230;you will lose people!  (See <a href="http://biblegateway.com/bible?version=31&amp;passage=John+6" class="bibleref" title="NIV John 6" target="_new">John 6</a>)</li>
<li>Whenever the church grows you will lose people!</li>
<li>Whenever the church makes a major move you will lose people!</li>
<li>Whenever things seem to be going well you will lose people.</li>
</ul>
<p>I hate it&#8230;but it&#8217;s true!!!  There isn&#8217;t a ministry on the planet that hasn&#8217;t had to deal with the painful reality that people leave&#8230;even when you feel like you are being completely obedient to God and doing what He says!!!  (I actually heard someone say once, &#8220;If people aren&#8217;t leaving then you are not leading!&#8221;  That statement is painfully true!)</p>
<p><strong>#5 &#8211; I Thought I Could Control What People Thought About Me! </strong></p>
<p>I remember the first time I read something negative about me on the internet.  It literally destroyed me&#8230;seriously, it was like someone took a knife and jabbed it into my soul!!!  I read it about four or five times&#8230;and for the next several days I hyper focused on that particular website and had this thought, &#8220;If this person and I could only meet and chat I think I could change his mind.&#8221;</p>
<p>It didn&#8217;t take long for me to realize that no matter what I did&#8230;no matter how many conversations I had&#8230;no matter how many olive branches I extended&#8230;that there were going to be people who hated me, slandered me and despised me&#8230;and there was literally nothing I could do about it.</p>
<p>Church leader&#8230;you CANNOT control what people think about you&#8230;and you can&#8217;t worry about it either.  Jesus had a group of people who HATED Him and followed Him everywhere He went, pointing out His &#8220;faults,&#8221; yet He stayed true to the VISION His Father placed inside of Him and didn&#8217;t engage in trying to change their minds about Him.</p>
<p>If you want to silence your critics then you must&#8230;</p>
<ul>
<li>Keep your eyes on Jesus (Craig Groeschel says that becoming obsessed with what people think about me is the quickest way to forget what God thinks about me.)  Let HIM, not &#8220;them&#8221; define you!</li>
<li>Live a life of integrity!!  (<a href="http://biblegateway.com/bible?version=31&amp;passage=1+Peter+2%3A15" class="bibleref" title="NIV 1Peter 2:15" target="_new">I Peter 2:15</a>)</li>
</ul>
<p>The rest is in God&#8217;s hands!!!  You cannot shape the opinions of others&#8230;you can only be true to who God called you to be!!!</p>
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		<title>Five Mistakes I Made As A Young Leader&#8211;Part One</title>
		<link>http://www.perrynoble.com/2009/11/17/five-mistakes-i-made-as-a-young-leader-part-one/</link>
		<comments>http://www.perrynoble.com/2009/11/17/five-mistakes-i-made-as-a-young-leader-part-one/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 12:20:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>perry</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Church Planting]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Leadership]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Personal]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.perrynoble.com/?p=2334</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[One of the questions most often asked of me by pastors when we meet is, &#8220;what are the mistakes you made when you were a young leader that you wish someone would have talked to you about?&#8221;
Five always come to mind&#8230;
#1 &#8211; I thought that people who did not believe just like me were stupid, [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the questions most often asked of me by pastors when we meet is, &#8220;what are the mistakes you made when you were a young leader that you wish someone would have talked to you about?&#8221;</p>
<p>Five always come to mind&#8230;</p>
<p><strong>#1 &#8211; I thought that people who did not believe just like me were stupid, ungodly and should be avoided and rebuked. </strong></p>
<p>This attitude stems from pride and arrogance&#8230;which is a danger with any leader&#8230;and, when I first began leading I thought I was RIGHT&#8230;and if anyone deviated from anything I believed it was because &#8220;the enemy had taken hold of them.&#8221;  AND&#8230;what is unfortunate is that I didn&#8217;t think this way in regards to MAJOR theological issues (which should be fought for)&#8230;but rather music preferences, rated &#8220;R&#8221; movies, drinking alcohol, you know&#8230;the &#8220;important&#8221; things that Jesus fought about all of the time!!!  :-)</p>
<p>It took several years for God to break me of this&#8230;and He did.  He showed me that majoring on the minors isn&#8217;t really something that Jesus did&#8230;nor did those who followed Him.  In fact&#8230;the people who majored on the minors were actually the ones who murdered Him.</p>
<p>It was a humbling process&#8230;but I have pretty much come to the conclusion that if we can at least agree on the basics found in the<a href="http://www.creeds.net/ancient/nicene.htm" target="_blank"><strong> Nicene Creed</strong></a> then we should be able to love one another a learn from each other.</p>
<p><strong>#2 &#8211; I defined our church by who we were not going to be rather than who we were going to be. </strong></p>
<p>It&#8217;s easy when a person plants a church because we already know everything we&#8217;re not going to do!  We left a world that we felt was a little dysfunctional&#8230;and we are commited to doing it &#8220;the right way.&#8221;</p>
<p>BUT&#8230;the danger in that mentality is&#8230;when we begin it is easy to launch a ministry based on attacking what is wrong with the church rather than proclaiming strong vision and declaring what we will do as a church.</p>
<p>Sooner or later people get tired of a ministry that is always in attack mode&#8230;they want to hear not what&#8217;s wrong with other churches, but rather what your church is going to do that is right.</p>
<p>Vision MUST begin with a burden and passion to do what God places inside of us&#8230;and a part of that IS identifying what is wrong&#8230;but when all we do is focus on the wrong (ANY idiot can point out a problem) and refuse to get involved in making what is wrong become right&#8230;well&#8230;that usually means we are not leaders but rather people who love to tear down but have no desire to build up.</p>
<p>One of the best things we can do is leaders is define who we are as a church by what God has called us to do&#8230;focus on that with intense passion&#8230;and allow God to drive us with His direction&#8230;NOT focus on what is wrong with everyone and everything and us others faults to make us feel so much better about where we are and what we are doing!</p>
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		<title>Four Random Questions I Wrestle With</title>
		<link>http://www.perrynoble.com/2009/11/12/four-random-questions-i-wrestle-with/</link>
		<comments>http://www.perrynoble.com/2009/11/12/four-random-questions-i-wrestle-with/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 12:50:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>perry</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Church Issues]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Church Planting]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Leadership]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Personal]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.perrynoble.com/?p=2322</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I often reflect on my early years in ministry&#8230;and the questions I wrestled with then.  As I look at my struggles my first five years&#8230;not that much has changed.  I still struggle with the same things&#8230;
#1 &#8211; Why do people criticize a church that reaches people? 
I remember hearing early on in my ministry how [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I often reflect on my early years in ministry&#8230;and the questions I wrestled with then.  As I look at my struggles my first five years&#8230;not that much has changed.  I still struggle with the same things&#8230;</p>
<p><strong>#1 &#8211; Why do people criticize a church that reaches people? </strong></p>
<p>I remember hearing early on in my ministry how evil Willow Creek/Bill Hybels was&#8230;so&#8230;I went to a conference where Hybels was speaking (so I could make my own decision) and watched him WEEP over people far from God (something I had never seen his critics do!)  It didn&#8217;t take me long to realize that his critics were not motivated by concern&#8230;but rather jealousy.</p>
<p>Yet&#8230;this still happens today.  In fact, it is quite popular to speak against anything that is growing in Christian circles&#8230;because if it can be shown in a negative light then it empowers other churches/organization to stay where they are and not make any sorts of adjustments.</p>
<p><strong>#2 &#8211; Why do churches continually invest in broken systems? </strong></p>
<p>For example&#8230;I am from Baptist world (this will be fun)&#8230;and I never, EVER, understood the concept of Sunday school.  The church begged and begged people to go&#8230;but the pastor didn&#8217;t go, the staff didn&#8217;t go&#8211;HECK, the Sunday school director didn&#8217;t even go!!!</p>
<p>If I am remembering correctly&#8230;SS attendance in ever major denomination has been DECREASING since the 1970&#8217;s&#8230;and yet churches STILL invest in the system that DID HAVE IT&#8217;S DAY&#8230;but needs to be let go of.  (I am REALLY making a lot of new friends in Baptist world right now!  Guys&#8230;I don&#8217;t hate you!  My heart is built on nothing less than Lottie Moon and Broadman Press!  I just desperately wish change would be embraced for the sake of HIS KINGDOM&#8230;and the SBC&#8217;s goal would not be merely to survive&#8230;but thrive!!!)</p>
<p>The other thing that comes to mind here is the way churches invest in youth and children&#8217;s ministry!  Seriously&#8230;I&#8217;ve read statistics that say up to 80% of CHURCHED KIDS walk away from the church when they graduate high school&#8230;and very few EVER return.  Could one of the problems be THE WAY the church approached ministry?  If so&#8230;then does the church MAYBE need to make some adjustments?</p>
<p>If the system is broken then say it is&#8230;and doing so is NOT irreverent&#8230;it is actually honoring to God!!!</p>
<p><strong>#3 &#8211; Why do &#8220;Christians&#8221; hate people who aren&#8217;t like them? </strong></p>
<p>This was REALLY confusing&#8230;I remember churches organizing abortion protest and then going out and yelling/screaming at people entering the abortion clinics and such.</p>
<p>NOW&#8230;let me be very clear&#8230;I am NOT for abortion&#8230;at all!  BUT&#8230;I remember thinking during the times when these protests were quite popular, &#8220;what about the girl who is sitting in the church right now and has had an abortion?&#8221;  (You can actually put anyone in that situation&#8230;the person who has given away their virginity, had a divorce, struggles with an addiction.)</p>
<p>Unfortunately&#8230;I&#8217;ve discovered that the people who most often look down on people who aren&#8217;t as &#8220;good as them&#8221; are usually hiding something of their own!!!</p>
<p>Oh&#8230;and one more thing here&#8230;why do &#8220;Christians&#8221; hate people who don&#8217;t believe just like them?  (The reformed guys are usually the worse&#8230;and, being pretty much reformed in my theology I believe I can say that with integrity!)  We all have different beliefs&#8230;but I would say if we could claim the Nicean Creed as our common ground&#8230;we should be mature enough to work through the rest.)</p>
<p><strong>#4 &#8211; Why do pastors/church leaders listen to people who tell them what they should be doing&#8230;but have actually never done it? </strong></p>
<p>If I wrote a book on surgery&#8230;the how to&#8217;s and such&#8230;there isn&#8217;t a doctor in the world that would buy it and/or attempt to apply what I had written!  Why?  Because&#8230;I am not a doctor&#8230;and I have NEVER actually performed surgery.</p>
<p>Yet&#8230;someone who has never planted a church and/or been a pastor can write a book in the Christian world&#8230;and church planters/pastors will devour it.  Some people call this brilliant&#8230;I call it stupid.</p>
<p>The world seems to grasp this concept&#8230;learn from people who have been where you want to go.  Yet the church seems to embrace, &#8220;listen and learn from the people who have never actually done anything&#8230;but have really good theories.&#8221;</p>
<p>Pastors/church leaders&#8230;if you want to learn the seek the wisdom of people who have actually done what you are wanting to do.  (BTW&#8230;these people do not descrie themselves as &#8220;experts&#8221;&#8230;but rather servants who simply listen to the Lord and do what He says!)</p>
<p>And for the person/people who have great theories about how to plant/lead a church&#8230;I would say if you really believe in your theories then why don&#8217;t you risk it all and put them into practice rather than trying to make a profit by selling your untested ideas to men and women whom you are hoping may have the faith that you don&#8217;t actually have?</p>
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